Author Topic: 'Car & Driver' Magazine urq (Read 1122 times)

CurtEgerer · « **on:** September 08, 2009, 04:33:31 PM »

This is a bit long but it's a pretty interesting story. I had my 81 urq home on Labor Day and sitting out in the driveway. It's usually at my shop which is a few miles away. Anyway, a pickup truck pulls in and a retired couple gets out and inquires about the car. The guy tells me he has an 83 urq that he's had for years and he lives only 2 miles away - he can't believe that he and I had never crossed paths before. He tells me the car hasn't run in years and has several problems, blah, blah, blah. So we chat some more and he is pretty knowledgeable about the cars.

I then tell him how I became interested in quattros ... back in the early 80's a good friend bought one brand new and I was also going to the rallies at the time and watching Buffum. At some point I mention my friend's name (Greg) and he pauses for a minute with a stunned look and says - I have Greg's car!!! Turns out he's the guy that bought it from Greg in 1986 or so. The tragic part of the story and what makes it a bit emotional for me is Greg was killed in a horrible accident in his R32 Golf several years ago on I-75 and Sashabaw.

This guy knew Greg as well and Greg helped him with some problems on the car and helped document its history. I was always under the impression that Greg bought the car brand new. Apparently not. The car has an 81 build date, was labeled by Audi as an 83 and was titled as an 82. It was the 2nd US-spec car to be imported into the country and served as a press/test car for various magazines. Audi of America confirmed that it was the car used for Road & Track Magazine's first quattro test report. Audi sold the car to the dealer where Greg bought the car in 83 or 84. I talked to my brother Kevin (who is on the board here and knew the car better than me) and neither of us ever remembers anything about it being a test car. I suspect that advertising it as a magazine test car would be the last thing the dealer would want to do and probably never mentioned that little detail

The last time I saw the car was probably 20 years ago. This guy used it as a daily driver for years - winter, summer and salt. It had a lot of rust on it. He said the last time he drove it was in 1995 when the car died on his way to Gratten Raceway. It's been sitting ever since, including a stint out in a farm field

He said the interior is very nice and the body is straight excepting for a repair made to the rear drivers side quarter - I told him I knew what happened there ... Greg got the car a little sideways in the snow one night and tagged a snow bank with a mail box inside - Kevin might have been navigating that night, not sure ...

In any case, I'm going to go look at it tonight and who knows, maybe I'll buy it for sentimental reasons and/or as a parts car if the price is right. I'm pretty sure it is well beyond a restoration.

I pulled out my old AutoWeek from June 1982 with the first quattro test - I've saved it all these years. I'm now fairly certain that Greg's car is one of these 2 Mars Red cars on the cover

The Michigan manufacturer's plate is visible on the lead car and maybe the VIN could be tracked via that.

Legato · « **Reply #1 on:** September 08, 2009, 04:37:29 PM »

Interesting... Keep us posted!

SportquattroS1 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 08, 2009, 05:45:39 PM »

Now that is a bit of history that I know since Greg was one of the local guys that I knew from my Midland days at Light Performance works ( VW factory rally team). They are how I got my start rallying. I missed that car by less then a year & Greg was a great guy!

ken · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2009, 02:32:59 PM »

Interesting story!

CurtEgerer · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:08:45 PM »

Well, I looked at the car last night. Pretty cool to see a car you drove and rode in 20+ years ago. The car is better than I thought, but in need of a total resto. I need another project right now like I need another hole in my head, so I'm passing on it. If anyone else is interested, I'd be happy to assist - I'm 5-10 minutes away. He's not giving the car away and he doesn't need to sell it. While not giving me a direct asking price, I'm guessing he thinks he can get $5K out of it.

The interior could easily be cleaned up and would be in very nice shape. The car is complete and unmolested. There is a fair amount of rust on the exterior and some underneath. Not sure if the engine could be salvaged or not without a rebuild. It ran fine way back when but has been sitting all these years. It did still have oil in it!

He's got a lot of documentation. Turns out it was the Car & Driver test car, not R&T. Although it may have been in several (or all) of the magazines. They all reported on the car in their June 1982 issues. The car was brought in to the US in January 82 as an 83 model. Audi told him they had 2 press cars.

The C&D article is in here somewhere down toward the middle of the bunch:

http://www.t85q.com/mixedArticles.html

francois · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:46:07 PM »

The story is really cool, amazing sometimes what ends up being so close to someone's house.
As to get 5K for it, I am not sure tht will happen with a car in that shape, even if the car was a test car for a magazine.
one repainted, running URQ with no rust took a long time to sell for $5900, if it even sold for that much since it was the asking price.
That reminds me of the 2 URQ, 1 red, 1 Gobi beige that were store outside in madison heights, Ingo, Myself and others tried many time to buy them, the owner kept on saying how valuable they were, historical cars, very rare...... anyway they sat there for years till the place went out of business, then after a stint at Auto Europe they ended up on e-bay, looking and running like crap and sold for nothing. So sad that sometimes people hang on to cars that are roting away instead of selling them for what they are worth and not what they think thy should be worth. one of my neighbor is a good exampl of that. Too bad for the poor cars!

Ingostamus Maximus · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2009, 08:41:34 PM »

Great story. Any more pics of the rust and such?

CurtEgerer · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2009, 09:08:50 PM »

Francois - I agree. Although I still don't understand why these cars sell for as little as they do. They SHOULD be worth more. But they simply aren't. I had a guy stopped next to me at a traffic light a few days ago who said " Wow, I can't believe I'm seeing a quattro! How much is that worth today, $80,000 or so?". Yeah right, and today only I'm going to sell it to you for the low, low price of $50,000

I use the early 911 as an example I am very familiar with. There were many, many more early 911s built during 65-73 than quattros built from 80-91. Yet the early 911 sells for 3 times the money (and sometimes 10 or 20 times the money depending on model!).

Can somebody offer a theory for me?

Ed, I told the owner I would only post a few overall shots of the car. He's not trying to hide anything but would just prefer to deal directly with any potential buyers and let them view the car with their own eyes.

Ingostamus Maximus · « **Reply #8 on:** September 09, 2009, 09:28:59 PM »

Curt, it was me (Ingo) that was asking -- I have people that may be interested.

As to why the cars doesn't command as much $$$ as they should -- I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that Audi doesn't support the old gals like Porsche does. There are more and more parts that are simply no longer available -- so that only by scavaging from other cars can certain parts be had -- this can definitely be a big deal (especially when you're talking about a windshield, shift linkage, etc).

CurtEgerer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 09, 2009, 11:19:24 PM »

Oops

Sorry Ingo. Send me an eMail: rgruppe911 at gmail.com

francois · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2009, 08:18:54 AM »

I am not sure why they do not hold their value.
It is sad! You would hope that such great technological cars, quite rare since only about 10K were built are not trading for any more money.
The old Audis from the 70"s that were great cars, well buit....are not worth the paint you might slap on them but a rusted Alfa romeo from the same era will sell for 4 or 5 times as much.
I even see some early 80's alfa GTV6 sell for more than an URQ, and that I do not understand.I would have thought that the URQ would be a good investment besides being the great car that it is, Maybe I should have bought a 1983 Chevy Celebrity!
An R5 turbo that was manufactured from 1980-86 with about the same productions number, a few less actually, great cars but certainly did not cause the revolution the URQ caused in racing and in the 4 wheel drive drivetrain. you want even touch one of these for less than 20K!
I do agree also with Ingo that the lack of parts has hurt ownership. BMW still caries parts for the 70"S car, they have a dedicated service for that. I can easily find any parts for my 1959 Alfa Giuletta.
I had a hell of a time finding ball joints for the URQ! many parts are NLA.
Since the motor might be toast, that would be a good candidate for you to put the 4000 engine in it.
basically old Audis get no respect!

CurtEgerer · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:18:31 AM »

I suppose maybe their time has not yet come. There is sort of a formula for collector car values ..... choose a popular new car from a time when you were in high school. Fast forward about 20-25 years when you now have some disposable income and you still want that car you dreamed about in Math class. Everybody else from your class also still wants the car and now has the income to buy it. This is why some Chevelles & Camaros were/are selling for $100,000+.

OK, so take the years 1983-85 for the urq and add 20-25 years and you have 2003-2010. Apparently, my theory sucks

Of course, I don't think our wonderful economy is helping things out much either.

francois · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:50:19 AM »

I think your theory is good, but what puzzle me is this.
Maybe the Audi thing is a US issue only. Well the prices are also pretty low in Europe, the old stuff is even worth!.
the other thing is this.
so the middle age Americans that were in high school in the early 80's what were they dreaming of.
I remeber arriving here in 1984 and the offering were nothing to write home about.
Chevy chevette, celebrity, trans am? ( not)
then you had the K cars and like
the Ford Taurus, escort....
Did not seem there was much home made stuff with collectable potential.
I guess this will stay a mystery and we will be a few to really enjoy these great cars!

20VQTRO · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2009, 12:11:14 PM »

Yeah it's crap to see a great car in such sad shape. I remember reading an article by Peter Egan? in Road and Track years ago. He made a connection to great old cars like these, and old race horses put out to pasture. Thus rotting cars in fields, trying to hold on to the past and great memories with them. I think thats fitting. Perhapses the the owner of this Ur Q has set his price so high, because he can't stand to see it go.

On another note . . . Because this car is so far past a restore . . . Gut it to the shell add a cage. It would make a great track car.

Great write up Kurt, keep us posted.

ken · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2009, 12:34:38 PM »

Some people want way too much for used cars- maybe it is because they really don't want to let them go. Just look at used Miata prices- (this guy is nuts) http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/1363183669.html

CurtEgerer · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2009, 02:48:37 PM »

Quote from: francois on September 10, 2009, 09:50:19 AM

I think your theory is good, but what puzzle me is this.
Maybe the Audi thing is a US issue only.

This is a big part of it in the USA for sure. The average American car guy doesn't even know what a quattro is, much less its significance in automotive history. We are dealing with a tiny pool of enthusiasts who were even aware of these cars back in the 80's. Again, go back to your high school days and think about the large percentage of kids interested in muscle cars (even as bad as they were in that era) and the small percentage who were into Audi or other Euro cars.

So out of a class of 100 students back then, 95 are bidding today on the black TransAm with the gold chicken on the hood and 5 are bidding on the quattro. The law of supply & demand - and there just isn't enough demand right now.

Oh well, I'm just happy to be in a position to enjoy driving 2 of them finally after all these years, regardless of value

francois · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2009, 04:09:26 PM »

Yes we are lucky to own and drive these cars.
Now what are the chances of that 1984 Audi 5000, olympic edition to sell for the $19500 opening bid on E-bay right now?

ken · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2009, 05:26:44 PM »

Not good. That TV antenna is sweet though!

Avantge · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:51:29 PM »

yeah....very little respect for the older Audi's, sadly

Bluefool · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:23:19 PM »

Well, Porsche just has that racing/sports car mystique, and Audis don't.

I know that there must be some people that don't know what an Audi is, which probably contributes to the effect. EVERYONE has heard of Porsche.

I met one that apparently hadn't heard of Audi before at a stoplight driving my A4 a couple months ago. Some middle-aged lady in an Explorer in the left turn lane on my left at a stoplight, yelled out:
Lady: "What car is that?"
Me: "An Audi A4."
Lady: "A what?"
Me: "An Audi."
Lady: "Who makes it?"
Me: <pausing, not sure what to say> "Audi."

The light, by this time, mercifully turned green and I took off. She was curious about the car, because she backed up in her lane then pulled forward like she was checking out the badging. A4s aren't rare and have only been kicking around for the last 13 years. Some people...

CurtEgerer · « **Reply #20 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:55:54 PM »

Good point.